In a prior post, with credit to Lenny Melnick, I laid out what I thought were the basics of good trading skills. In the Fantasy Baseball Search Expert League I was approached about two trades, both of which I summarily rejected, and they were good examples of what happens when you don’t follow the basics.
In the FBSEL, my inbox contained two trade offers. I outright rejected both. Both violated the trading “rules”, and show that even experts sometimes don’t exhibit the greatest trading skills.
The first one was Johnny Damon for Rafael Soriano. The proponent of the trade advised that he needs, saves, and I have a lot of saves.
The error here is obvious, and it violates what is probably the number one rule, above all others, when negotiating and offering trades. You must show your potential trading partner how you can help him. In fact, this offer does exactly the opposite. No attempt is even made to argue that my team will be helped by this trade; essentially he is saying to me “you can help me the most so help me.” Why would I do that?
Secondly, the trade chit offered, Johnny Damon, is of no use. The other party obviously gave no thought at all as to what my team’s needs were or how he could help me. My OF currently includes Bobby Abreu, Magglio Ordonez and Carl Crawford. Which of these do you want to jettison for Damon? My Utility guys are usually some combo of Aramis Ramirez, Jermaine Dye and Adrian Beltre. Damon is no better than these guys, and in almost every reasonable scenario will be worse.
The second was not nearly as egregious. The second offered me Jeremy Guthrie for Magglio Ordonez. At least this trade considered my needs a little bit. I have pursued the mostly reliever strategy, but occasionally start a starter when the situation looks favorable. So, arguably this trade could help me in that respect.
Yet it is only of very marginal help at all, since the owner knows my strategy and knows that I am not going to start a starting pitcher very often. So, for the very small marginal gain, if any, he wants Magglio Ordonez. Ugh. It is not as egregious, but also shows that no much thought was put into what I need or intend to do.
Another trading rule is to try to be fair. In no way, on value alone, can this be considered fair. Guthrie is 2-6 for a bad team, with a good but not great 3.58 ERA for a 12-team mixed league. Baseball HQ has him worth $7. Ordonez has 9 HR 38 RBI and is batting .318. His season is worth $25. Does that seem fair?
Perhaps the other owner thinks very little of me, which I doubt, or he just didn’t think beyond his own team at all. But given what I have said here and what I have done in the league it should be clear to anyone that neither of these trades are acceptable by any yardstick.
This is not about value; it is about how to make your trading successful. Applying the “rules” it should be clear at the outset that these trade offers will not be successful, and are far more likely to just be flatly rejected without a counter offer than to foment a good trade discussion resulting in a deal. Don’t make the same mistake.
6 responses so far ↓
1 WB Marshall // Jun 6, 2008 at 12:41 pm
It should be a corteousy to add a few lines of dialogue when creating, declining or countering a trade proposal. I don’t need a 10 page email detailing why you think Russell Martin would be benificial, but a little dialogue gives me a perspective of where the trader is coming from. Or, when declining, a little explanation from the other party helps to understand why it is being denied. Was it a ridiculous offer? Am I anywhere close? Did Adam Dunn dump your sister? Tell me something so we can bridge the gap…
2 Patrick DiCaprio // Jun 9, 2008 at 8:47 am
Hey WB thanks for reading. I agree with you, which is why I propose that you pick up the phone; I always call if I can to discuss a trade. Here though, with experts, it is not as big a deal, but in house leagues liek the others I play in I never do things via email if I can avoid it.
3 Tony Cincotta // Jun 9, 2008 at 8:50 pm
One of things I find tough is that I get so many emails in one day. So when I see an email from a guy that usually tries to undercut me in every trade. I ignore the email, and treat it like Rosie O’Donnell coming across a hot guy. I actually might occasionally be accused of being arrogant. There are times when I will write to a league member.
Look, I get 200 emails a day. Lets make a deal don’t waste my time and I wont waste yours. This approach is only 50/50 in its effectiveness. So basically I just wasted everyone’s time that they took to read this. I better go check my email.
Tony Cincotta
4 John Hammon // Jun 9, 2008 at 11:09 pm
I agree with the spirit of the article, but I’m surprised you weren’t interested in the first deal. On value, Damon is the better player. Soriano first has to be healthy, then has to be effective on return, and then may not even be the closer. If you indeed are heavy on saves, why wouldn’t you want to deal a questionable player like Soriano, who I’ve seen dropped in leagues, for a valuable trade commodity like Johnny Damon. Damon has name recognition, and enough value to be worth something out in the market…especially in a package deal. Why not make the move and see if you can make a follow-up deal for a position you do need?
My point is, even if another owner is foolish/inconciderate enough to not follow the rules, that doesn’t mean you can’t take advantage. I’ve always found, the best way to teach a rival owner a lesson…is to rob them blind.
5 Mike Podhorzer // Jun 10, 2008 at 5:11 am
John, I agree with you. Soriano is unlikely to make it through the entire season healthy and as the closer, so trading him for Damon could allow you to turn right back and trade him for a safer closer. I’m sure you’d be able to get some bottom tier guy like CJ Wilson who should still save more games than Soriano over the rest of the season.
6 John Hammon // Jun 10, 2008 at 11:51 pm
Thanks Mike, and thanks Patrick for the article. I love the site, guys. The last couple years I’ve really become intense about understanding trends and strategy in fantasy sports, especially baseball. This is the kind of fantasy site I’d love to be a part of…keep up the good work!
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